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"base:title": "0oo - Dolphin Chatroom Buoy"
"og:title": "Dolphin Chatroom Buoy"
"og:description": "###_Chat portals and libraries for dolphins._ People had been trying to crack dolphin language for quite a while now, without a major breakthrough. So, if we knew how they learn a foreign language from dolphins speaking their other foreign language, -- would that dataset elucidate it for us, how we could, too? The hypothesis that this idea relies on is the assumption that it would. So, here's the rationale: _non-technical people had been preoccupied with telephony and IRC chats in the early Internet, telling their minds and love stories over the low-bandwidth connection._ So, imagine a story: <a name="part-1"></a> ### …"
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#
"item:parent:intents": [{"url": "/intent/1269/", "title": "Science: Social"}, {"url": "/intent/1172/", "title": "Marine and Coastal Ecosystems"}, {"url": "/intent/1084/", "title": "Marine Biodiversity"}, {"url": "/intent/1182/", "title": "Seas"}, {"url": "/intent/1197/", "title": "Telecommunications technology"}]
"item:title": ".:en:Dolphin Chatroom Buoy.:cn:海豚聊天浮標"
"item:summary": ".:en:Create a low bandwidth distant communications channel for groups of dolphins with exchanged member, and crack dolphin language much faster!.:cn:创造低带宽的远距离通讯通道，让群居的海豚交换成员，更快地破解海豚语!"
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.:en
###_Chat portals and libraries for dolphins._
People had been trying to crack dolphin language for quite a while now, without a major breakthrough. So, if we knew how they learn a foreign language from dolphins speaking their other foreign language, -- would that dataset elucidate it for us, how we could, too? The hypothesis that this idea relies on is the assumption that it would.
So, here's the rationale: _non-technical people had been preoccupied with telephony and IRC chats in the early Internet, telling their minds and love stories over the low-bandwidth connection._
So, imagine a story:
### Part 1 -- A crafted connection.
A couple of scientists studying dolphins in the wild, set up something akin to a floating "Dolphin Libraries" -- buoyant terminals with ultrasound telephony, routed via satellite Internet like the StarLink, that transmits produced ultrasound in real time from one end to another. They had set up the non-directional speakers so as to encourage more abstract communication rather than sound-pointing, so as to help them figure out how would dolphins use such channel to communicate their most abstract and information-packed thoughts.
Then, they used an airplane to relocate a one member (an adolescent fast-learner) dolphin from each of the groups to the other group (they had bioethical concerns, but -- with necessary preparations to make sure the trips are voluntary -- decided it was worth it), -- to have them just like exchange students, -- this was to guarantee, that they can have peers that can teach the concepts of another tribe by pointing to example objects associated with the utterances from their other language.
Under such circumstances, sparked by curiosity and the longing of their fellow dolphin that was transported to another geography, the dolphins began chatting with another pod during their free time from fishing. They quickly explained each other the concept of "human," and told the stories about the trip to their family members, who cared about their safety. Then, they started exploring the situation, by learning each other's language -- since having large vocabulary, they already had concepts for temperature, salinity, waves, and a plethora of names for species of fish and objects, the names of which the groups taught each other with the help of their transported ambassadors.
Eventually, they began exchanging about the living conditions in respective places (like students do), -- complaining what's good and bad in those places, and eventually strategizing how to communicate it to people, that they would like to get back to their respective families, or get together in one place. Scientists thought that some strategies may manifest by their separation from the new group, heading alone in a straight line for a longer period of time, but they did not anticipate of some very creative ways that the group came up with to communicate ideas visually. By that time, the scientists already had a huge dataset of communication logs, giving high hopes for figuring out how to ask them about it directly.
### Part 2 -- Expanding vocabulary, and utility.
The scientists, continued building their vocabulary by introducing a variety of objects, and observing, what words do the dolphin groups use to describe and identify those objects, expanding the vocabulary. Since the words created by the dolphins themselves were in their most convenient pitches of modulations, scientists discovered, that the dolphins were actually able to amass much larger vocabulary than anticipated, on a par with humans. They had hypothesized that this may be because of the diversity of fish and objects in the seas.
Sparked with curiosity, the scientists are finally were at the edge of breakthrough of being able to converse with a dolphin like with a human, and express complex thoughts. So, the scientists, being interested in the seas, came up with something that they could do together: the first idea was finding locations of new species of sea creatures that are not yet discovered by humans. To do that, they developed the vocabulary of fish by examples of all kind of sea creatures known to both humans and dolphins, and eventually asking for finding new species that are not in our vocabulary yet. They decied to pay for this to dolphins in their favorite fish captured by fishermen, in exchange for the information, and trying to think what else would be interesting -- maybe shipwrecks, or something else entirely.
### Part 3 -- Culture of stories.
Time passed, and as the experiment continued, dolphins were found to have no problem using the built-in rewind and replay commands on the terminals, to record their stories to these terminals. They asked humans to develop ways to make more complex manipulations, such as to enable marking up and reviewing segments of the conversations. The dolphins started writing stories into "virtual books," and a new culture was born. Generations of new dolphins had to come to the terminals to listen what their predecessors had spoken. They started those terminals to record incidents of luck and misfortune. Those terminals worked like living memory of new civilization, and elementary schools. The dolphins asked for more of these terminals.
The network, being a really inexpensive movable technology had expanded, and moved where dolphins had moved, which became driven by the research interests and fish. People had learned a great deal about the sea ecosystem from the stories of dolphins that had witnessed human caused disasters, as humans got the first person impressions and insights about the other intelligent cetaceans like orcas, that dolphins spoke of from their experiences.
### Part 4 -- Computing and driving.
What came next was unthinkable. Due to elaborate voice capabilities, the dolphins had learned enough of commands to operate Linux terminal. What dolphins lacked in their limbs, they had exceeded with their ability to modulate sound and its direction. In collaboration with humans, they had got robots designed, that could be controlled by the sound commands to manipulate the direction of the robot as if with a joystick that listens directionality of sound, and grab and manipulate objects with underwater submarine "drones". After introducing an underwater rover, they had actually asked if they could get a [car](https://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Dolphin_20Car) made so that they could drive out of the water and drive over our terrain environment.
### Part 5 -- Inseparable friend.
Fascinated by cities on the terrain, and ever-present internet connection, dolphins had become an inseparable companion of humanity, providing new perspective and sharing views. Ultimately, they were lifted up to visit space stations, and shared that with their expanding communities in the seas and above ground. What would have been millions of years of evolution, had happened in a glimpse of an eye -- with the help of humans, in relatively short span of time, giving them a glimpse of what it would be to develop a common language with extraterrestrials -- as they are: oceans are a kind of "extra-terra."
### Finally
And, that all started with just a simple experiment of connection. While not all steps may actually happen as described in the story above, even the first ones would bring much value.
If that sounds like fun adventure, -- what about the ethics, and whom should we share this with to get something like this going?
.:cn
人们尝试破解海豚语言已经有一段时间了，但没有重大突破。那么，如果我们知道它们是如何从说另外一种语言的海豚那里学习外语的，——这个数据集会不会为我们阐明，我们如何也可以？这个想法所依赖的假设是该数据集会。
那么，理由是这样的：在早期的互联网中，非技术人员一直专注于电话和IRC聊天，通过低带宽的连接讲述他们的思想和爱情故事。
所以，想像一个故事：
####第一部分——精心设计的连接
几个研究野生海豚的科学家，建立了一个类似于漂浮的“海豚图书馆”的东西——带有超声波电话的漂浮终端，通过诸如StarLink之类的卫星互联网进行路由，将产生的超声波实时从一端传送到另一端。他们设置了无方向性的扬声器，而不是将声音限制在一个方向，以鼓励更多的抽象交流，帮助他们弄清楚海豚如何利用这种渠道来交流它们最抽象和信息量最大的思想。
然后，他们用飞机将每组海豚中的一名成员（一名快速学习的青少年）重新安置到另一组（他们有生物伦理方面的顾虑，但认为这是值得的），让他们就像交换生一样，这是为了保证，他们可以有同伴，通过指出与其另一种语言的语句相关联的实例对象，可以教另一个群体相关概念。
在这样的情况下，由于好奇心和对同伴海豚的渴望，这些海豚被转移到另一个地方，海豚们在捕鱼的空闲时间开始和另一个群体的海豚聊天。他们很快向对方解释了“人”的概念，并把旅途中的故事告诉了关心他们安全的家人。然后，他们开始探索情况，通过学习对方的语言——由于词汇量大，他们已经有了温度、盐度、海浪的概念，还有大量的鱼种和物体的名称，这些名称在运输大使的帮助下，各组互相传授。
终于，他们开始交流各自地方的生活状况（就像学生一样），——抱怨这些地方的好与不好，最后制定策略，如何向人们传达他们想回到各自的家庭，或者聚在某个地方。科学家们认为，某些策略可能会通过与新团队的分离而显现出来，它们会直线前进较长时间，但他们并未想到该团队提出了一些非常有创意的方式来用视觉传达想法。到那时，科学家们已经有了一个庞大的通讯日志数据集，寄希望于弄清楚如何直接向它们询问。
####第二部分——扩展词汇量和实用性
科学家继续通过引入各种对象来构建词汇表，并观察海豚群使用了哪些单词来描述和识别这些对象，从而扩展词汇表。科学家们发现，由于海豚自己创造的词汇都是用它们最方便的调式音调，海豚实际上能够积累的词汇量比预想的要大得多，与人类相当。他们曾假设这可能是由于海洋中的鱼类和物体的多样性所致。
在好奇心的激发下，科学家终于处在突破的边缘，能够像与人类一样与海豚对话，表达复杂的思想。于是，对海洋感兴趣的科学家们想到了可以一起做的事情：第一个想法是寻找人类尚未发现的海洋生物新物种的位置。为此，他们以人类和海豚都知道的各种海洋生物为例，发展了鱼类的词汇，最后要求找到我们词汇中还没有的新物种。他们决定将渔民捕获的、海豚喜欢的鱼付给海豚，以此来换取信息，并考虑还有什么有趣的东西——也许是沉船，或者完全是别的东西。
####第三部分——故事文化
时间流逝，随着实验继续，发现海豚使用终端上内置的倒带和重播命令，将自己的故事记录到这些终端上没有问题。他们要求人类开发出更复杂的操作方法，比如能够对对话的片段进行标记和回顾。海豚们开始把故事写成“虚拟书”，一种新的文化诞生了。一代又一代的新海豚不得不来到终端机前，听他们的前辈说过的话。它们开始用这些终端机来记录幸运和不幸的事件。这些终端机的工作就像新文明的活记忆，和初等学校。海豚们要求增加这些终端机。
作为一种非常廉价的可移动技术，该网络已经扩展，海豚移动到哪里，网络就扩展到哪里，这受到了研究兴趣和鱼类的驱动。从见证人类造成灾难的海豚故事中，人们学到了很多关于海洋生态环境的知识，因为人类从海豚谈到的经历中，得到了关于虎鲸等其他智慧鲸类的第一人称的印象和见解。
####第四部分——计算和驾驶
接下来的事情是不可想象的。由于精心设计的语音功能，海豚已经学会了足够的命令，可以操作Linux终端。海豚的四肢所缺乏的东西，可以用他们对声音及其方向的调制能力来超越。在与人类的合作中，他们设计出了机器人，可以通过声音指令来控制机器人的方向，就像用听声音方向性的操纵杆一样，用水下“无人机”潜艇抓取和操纵物体。在介绍了水下探测车之后，他们其实也曾问过，能不能做[一辆车](/method/911/海豚车)，让他们可以开出水面，在我们的陆地环境中行驶。
####第五部分——密不可分的朋友
海豚被陆地上的城市和无处不在的网络连接所吸引，他们已经成为人类不可分割的伙伴，提供新的视角，分享观点。最终，他们被升空参观空间站，并与他们在海洋和陆地上不断扩大的社区分享这些经历。本来几百万年的进化，就在一瞬间发生了——在人类的帮助下，在相对较短的时间内，让他们瞥见了与外星人共同发展语言的情景——确实如此：海洋是一种 "地外之地"。
####最后
而且，这一切只是从一个简单的连接实验开始的。虽然并不是所有的步骤都会像上面故事中描述的那样实际发生，但即使是第一个步骤也会带来很多价值。
如果这听起来是有趣的冒险，——那伦理道德呢，我们应该和谁分享，才能让这样的事情发生呢？
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#
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- "id": "l-23"
"url": "https://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Dolphin_20Chatroom_20Libraries"
"text": "halfbakery.com - Dolphin Chatroom Libraries"
"note": |
Linking back to chat on this very topic at Halfbakery :) // "Bottlenose Lives Matter!" // “Disarm the Orcas!”
"owner": "Mindey"
"ownerlink": "/user/147/Mindey"
"permalink": "/method/975/?l=en#l-23"
"created": "2020-08-27T14:46:42.037000"
- "id": "l-26"
"url": "https://youtu.be/uMK3OVBjx2Q?t=1564"
"text": "Video on Cymatics and example on Dolphins Seeing Sounds"
"note": |
"owner": "Ruta"
"ownerlink": "/user/170/Ruta"
"permalink": "/method/975/?l=en#l-26"
"created": "2020-08-28T10:26:41.444000"
- "id": "l-27"
"url": "https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307895185_A_Phenomenon_Discovered_While_Imaging_Dolphin_Echolocation_Sounds"
"text": "Research Paper on Dolphins Seeing Sounds"
"note": |
"owner": "Ruta"
"ownerlink": "/user/170/Ruta"
"permalink": "/method/975/?l=en#l-27"
"created": "2020-08-28T10:27:13.333000"
- "id": "l-28"
"url": "https://youtu.be/eaCaPwbKWSo?t=2065"
"text": "Whale Sanctuary Project video:"
"note": |
Dolphins and whales have 2 auditory centers in their brains, -- one connected to the back of the brain, where we have visual cortex, and another to temporal lobe (like ours), but those areas are highly integrated, meaning that perhaps those holographic images are semantically and syntactically modulated, -- imagine 3D pictogram sequences as sentences...
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"created": "2020-08-28T18:01:08.749000"
- "id": "l-29"
"url": "https://airtable.com/shriBqBkAmHfDTygg"
"text": "ACTION: Whom to reach out to? - Airtable"
"note": |
Since realization of ideas need reaching out. Feel free to anonymously (or not) add links to dolphin researchers focusing on language. :) Use [this form](https://airtable.com/shra4HzOlyZhLffW1) to add new.
"owner": "Mindey"
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"created": "2020-08-29T19:21:21.851000"
- "id": "l-30"
"url": "https://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Net_20etiquette"
"text": "halfbakery.com - Net etiquette"
"note": |
"As soon as the intelligence spikes around the chatrooms, there will be
floating toolboxes around them — that you can be sure of."
"owner": "Mindey"
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"created": "2020-08-30T23:45:58.266000"
- "id": "l-31"
"url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNETxZPNaPM"
"text": "Dolphin riding bow wave"
"note": |
They already are using our ships to get free rides across the seas, so maybe no dialects? Though, perhaps there are, because their [migration patterns](https://animals.mom.me/migration-route-bottlenose-dolphin-9332.html) tend to be just regional.
"owner": "Mindey"
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"created": "2020-08-31T18:17:37.174000"
- "id": "l-52001"
"url": "https://f.hubspotusercontent20.net/hubfs/9272528/images/product/ufile/library/2359_file.pdf"
"text": "Dolphin ultrasound capabilities (JP)"
"note": |
"owner": "Mindey"
"ownerlink": "/user/147/Mindey"
"permalink": "/method/975/?l=en#l-52001"
"created": "2022-01-24T23:06:04.902076"
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"item:comment:items":
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"text": |
What if dolphins see images based on sounds?
So, if humans want to learn the language of dolphins, humans need to turn dolphins sounds into images (with cymascope), collect lots of images and then identify meaning in those images, and finally synthesise it into an English-Dolphins dictionary.
(References added to Links)
"owner": "Ruta"
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"created": "2020-08-28T10:24:45.454000"
- "id": "a-952"
"text": |
// What if dolphins see images based on sounds?
Good point, but the restriction I've described in the idea was a bit intentional -- just like people couldn't transmit full range of their expressions via chat terminal, but were hooked so much that they shared their livelihoods in a sense-packed abstract language -- would dolphins do the same? Before we had Zoom and Hangouts, we had text chat-based communications, that worked miracles for collecting a training sets for things like translation services. :)
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"created": "2020-08-28T10:50:56.838000"
- "id": "a-953"
"text": |
//Video on Cymatics and example on Dolphins Seeing Sounds
very interesting. If dolphins have a society, then this underwater society may not be like human society, they can naturally communicate with holograms!
If dolphins develop a technological civilization, it must be very different from the technologies developed by humans living in the atmosphere.
"owner": "transiency"
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"created": "2020-08-28T12:17:00.246000"
- "id": "a-954"
"text": |
Along these lines, among interesting possibilities I just thought of, is dolphins getting to know the human concept of cultivating not their babies, but cultivating other fish and plants for food... (farming and husbandry)
"owner": "Inyuki"
"ownerlink": "/user/206/Inyuki"
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"created": "2020-08-28T22:58:43.247000"
- "id": "a-958"
"text": |
//Video on Cymatics and example on Dolphins Seeing Sounds
That video made me wonder: are they speaking in rapid successions of what I would call hologlyphics (holographic hieroglyphics), modulated by intermediate syntactic signals.
A note on portal design choice: perhaps these portals could have not only public channel, but directional (e.g., fanning out if pod is circular) access booths for private 1-1 communication, that would allow each dolphin to swim to a specific portal (the portals could be numbered with light-based signs, e.g., a human letter with a digit), and that way choose to interact with another specific dolphin at the other end.
"owner": "Mindey"
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"permalink": "/method/975/?l=en#a-958"
"created": "2020-08-31T00:05:32.835000"
- "id": "a-959"
"text": |
Update: after contacting with a few researchers so far, there is a definite concern about the details of how the so-called "exchange" could happen, because doing this exchange may equate to "kidnapping" in some circumstances, and that is definitely not what we want.
So, while the "how exactly?" -- what are these preparations -- part of the "exchange" is still a question, I guess, among the most natural and sound ways would be, if the experiment happened as a natural extension of letting dolphins play with our tools, like boats that would have one communication portal with the rest of the pod, -- the boat that could be used for fun and would continue driving forward, until they decide to stop with a special sign meaning "come back" as a collective decision of the dolphin's own desire and the voices from the pod members. Later, replacing the "boat" with an airplane, with the abort option always left up to the dolphins.
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