0oo P&L: -1424.3 ħ (≃ -14387 USD)

[Mindey], yes! we get a lot of feedback these days, so worth starting to share ideas for product features and milestones here.

A designer: "Schools would be most suitable IMO. It would teach young people to communicate with each other and express their thoughts."

A business executive: "My true passion is food. I used to make shoes for vegans and vegetarians. I used to use plastic type of leather for shoe making. Now, no ones knows how to make shoes anymore!"

"You know, our goal is to collect procedural knowledge on how things were made. Next time you want to open a shoe factory, you can do so, because you know how people did it in the past," I said.

An accountant professional: "I have lots of problems. Can I try? Some for my business, some personal ones. My family member has a disability so we have to approach problems differently."

"I agree, that's why conversation is important. We focus on comment based problem solving," I said.

An accountant professional: "So, how does it work? You have a problem, then think about a solution, project, milestones and tasks, you say. With our business, the hardest thing is implementation."

"I agree, what people usually lack is resources - human capital, financial capital or knowledge. People with skills, know-how or money. On a daily basis it can be hard to find the right people. Let's say I want to make education better, so I want to connect with teachers. How do I find them? I need to go to schools, look for online forums. It takes time to make friends. It's easier with our platform, you already have all the people, together, in one place. I don't need to look for people myself, content is what connects us. I don't need to look for teachers because teachers are there talking about problems they care about," I said.

A technical executive: "You have a tool to solve problems... What problems?"

"Any. Personal or global. Personal, let's say you want to quit your job and start your own business. You'll spend days, weeks, months, sometimes years talking to your friends and family about your problem, but quite often you won't do anything about it and stay where you are -- at the problem mode. The same applies for global problems. Let's say you are annoyed by seeing rubbish on the street. You keep complaining to your friends, but don't do anything to improve situation. With Infinity, you get a structure to move away from the problem and take action to get what you want," I said.

Now we have the essential features: 1) knowledge framework, 2) true multilinguality, 3) credit system.

[Eimantas] Hi, welcome to try out our updated site ;) Btw., how it is going with Crrency?

Btw., regarding the possible ways for getting return on investment into Infinity:

• projects' equity
• github model (e.g., pay for non-public space for projects, but I would like it be free space for non-commercial projects, like TeamViewer does if that is the case)
• membership fees
• pay-per-action (e.g., posting a problem in public may incur a fee)
• credit purchasing (e.g., user may purchase credit, and some actions like posting new public content may eat the credit)
• pay-per-payment (e.g., fraction of payment)

The graph above, currently is not representative of the project as a whole. However, I will try to make it such some time soon. The problem with evaluating the vaue of the Infinity project, is that it has the potential to affect diverse fields. We're talking millions of startup companies to be created via Infinity project.

Did you realize that people can actually stay anonymous while using infty? For discussions, I think this is a good thing. It is possible to register a free GitHub account, and to register with GitHub, a person only needs an e-mail. There had been an attempt on Citizendium to use real-name-policy, but Wikipedia seem to do just fine with anonymous authors... [ruta], [aliev]

One idea from the past by [aliev]: if a comment looks like a milestone, or a task, we should make it possible to convert it into it.

Guys, I was thinking how to make it easier for people to share on infty.

People have thoughtful discussions over email. We have time to think about what we want to say over email because we're not forced to respond just like we're over real-time chat. Why not make it easy to add such email conversations to infty by allowing people to cc ideas@infty.xyz ? This way people wouldn't need to leave a space where they have conversations but they could still preserve the knowledge on infty, and share it.

(x.ai works similarly, you just cc an AI)

[Mindey] [aliev] [george]

[ruta] to be able to share a random e-mail conversation on infty just cc-ing it to our e-mail address would require the ability to parse, which part of e-mail describes problem, which describes idea, etc. within a bunch of e-mails forwarded, and one email may have many ideas, and many problems, so, random e-mail to ideas@infty.xyz - and infty automatically sorts out what is the problem, what is the idea, etc? If we had this capability, why wouldn't we just throw any information from the web at it, and let it automatically figure this out? :) (I don't say we won't be able to do this in the near future, but not in the nearEST.)

As for human-assisted interaction, I think it is easier. E.g., I am thinking, how to write my ideas in my wiki, and just mark them up with some syntax, e.g., {:post it on infty|this is the content:}, so that my wiki would use infty API to post it for me.

So, we could support special tags, that people who write e-mails could use it when they forward e-mails to ideas@infty.xyz, and then, if they are really users of infty, and their e-mail is coming from expected sender, we could create content item(s) based on it.

[aliev], [ruta], long time ;) Are we still getting notifications?

Consulted ourselves {0.2} hours ;) {?0.1} And video: {0.3}: https://mindey.com/shots/0db4b367aef6eb779d3e13135-infty.mp4.

I think this project is interesting one in there.

i have edited my comment.

I spent {3} :), and expect it will take another {?0.5}.

Hey, guys! So, after a little long time, Infinity is in a fresh new reworked version, and on a new domain inf.li. Feel free to comment and ask questions. :)

Apparently, that single-page application didn't work out very well. Issues are numerous. For one thing -- someone who just wants to share a single page with someone, makes them download a whole app, just to show a single page.

So, now, finally 2020, I have decided to try to rework it in plain Django, right here, on 0oo.li, without any additional JavaScript. ^__^ Let's see how it goes~

Btw., so, I'm still considering, where to put the backlog. Maybe it should be on whatever we use, like, e.g., I use Dynalist. Or, if we use GitHub's issues, it would be nice to put day-summaries here as task results.

Appears like a lot of content needs to be cleaned up, or [marked-for-deletion].

Among the todo items, is improving the rendering of the Markdown. Currently line breaking doesn't work as expected, sorry for that. Will fix it. Maybe let me write here github.com/infamily/homebase... Or, better use Dynalist? Actually look at the "Bug report" on the left.

And here are the tasks planned out for tomorrow, at least from my side :) I feel like I need friends who would like to become administrators.

How about making a Telegram bot that posts an Idea, Project, Category or even a Comment to any of existing Ideas, Projects, Categories without me going to my browser? It would save me time on mobile for sure..

// How about making a Telegram bot that posts an Idea, ..., or even a Comment without me going to my browser? It would save me time on mobile for sure..

I think it would make most sense to have a Telegram bot for each Category, Idea, Project, and so that comments posted in them would automatically be synchronized with autogenerated Telegram channel for the topic.

However, that would mean creating a new Idea would have to be like creating a new Telegram channel. This could be done by Telegram API. However, that kind of bot would have to automatically create new users on Homebase, using usernames of Telegram users, and do something sane when there are multiple users with same usernames, basically generate accounts on Homebase. The recipie to automate creation of group is:

from telethon import TelegramClient, events, sync
from telethon import functions
api_id = XXXXXX # Get on https://my.telegram.org
api_hash = 'YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY' # Get on https://my.telegram.org
client = TelegramClient('session_name', api_id, api_hash)
phone = '+ZZZZZZZZZZZZ' # (verify with other live connection)
client.start()
# Doing stuff:
created_group = client(functions.messages.CreateChatRequest(
        users=['inyuki', 'mindey'],
        title='Intent 5: Creating Deep Connections and Love in Society'
))
chat_id = created_group.__dict__["chats"][0].__dict__["id"]
invite = client(functions.messages.ExportChatInviteRequest(chat_id))
print(invite.link)
# client.log_out()

And, I think this would not make sense by default, only perhaps to be customly enabled for certain ideas, when the conversation size reaches some point.

So, now, we're starting with actual project's sharing, sharing of it with people in problem domains, to get people solve problems together.

0oo meaning: from zero to infinity ?

// 0oo meaning: from zero to infinity ?

Yeah, who said we should be doing 0 -> 1, if we can do 0 -> ∞? Those who do 0 -> 1, usually don't get the benefit of scaling, and stay poor. Zero-To-Infinity, means a focus -- both to create things that didn't exist before, scaling it. :)

At this point, I think in the exchange section, it would be strategically advantageous to focus on trade of tools and equipment that empowers people to make and scale in markets, because these things are what creates value in societies.

For example, trading of power tools, industrial equipment, like mining equipment, farming tools, medical tools and equipment, laboratory equipment, mass production equipment, chip manufacturing equipment, etc., -- these are the transformers and enablers, that make modern life possible. They are what will eventually help understand the know-how graph.

Trade focus: - industrial equipment and materials, - medical equipment and materials, - lab equipment and materials.

Thinking of the further features:

• For general user: great value is in the ability to immediately contact many bright minds for feedback to your well-crafted message. We already have some people on Telegram, that we can simply invite to a Zoom meeting, and share about the overall notifications business (namely, that once someone will publish, they will get notified on Telegram, and are invited to provide feedback to the posted item.). So, while we had invited people already to the Telegram channels, they are currently not informed about this mechanics, and what they have to do once they get notification about a new topic on 0oo. We should therefore organize Zoom meetings to start this process.

• For researchers, is the full database (e.g., SQLite) download (or just equivalently API serializers with downloader).

• For trading and running business, it's the support for the payments. Thinking of payments, while Stripe is nice, we have to support freedom of using any methods -- from cryptographic currencies to traditionals like banks, PayPal, etc.
• For general user, perhaps it would be nice to have "one inbox" -- i.e., merging "Categories", "Ideas" and "Projects" into one uniform list of items, that are just labeled, and filterable, without resorting to Elasticsearch.
• IRC Server, to create new channels for new posts.

Thinking -- whenever dealing with currencies on 0oo, it's think of doing so like making friends with the people who issue those currencies. Economies are relationships...

Thinking -- when importing data about production, to connect actual manufacturers directly with the market, not via distributors, but via Homebase :)

Yeah, we need open and transparent direct trade and product exchange.

Focusing on equipment and materials... would answer most questions about know-how...

Thinking, for the ideas, it would make sense to connect with Ethereum via Metamask, to optionally sign innovations as ERC721 tokens...

Now, I'm thinking, that the /products section of 0oo could work a bit like CraigList, but supporting people's own payment methods, or tokens of approval of payments.

Thinking, of double strategy: business that funds decentralization encryption of user data from being able to see itself, and funds decentralization and dis-own-ment of its services.

Why? Because it's the amount of funds needed for development of the decenralized solution is large enough, that can only be funded as part of the business operations.

Current questions for 0oo front end:

• How can UI work as an ice-breaker and encourage people to post humourous responses?

• What types of ideas there are? So that diverse people feel welcomed to share their idea on 0oo.

Make OpenERP have REST APIs, and get companies listed as 0oo.li/projects and get them automatically list their products on 0oo.li/products ?

I think, we should operate as a global and free public service, because this type of site, like Wikipedia, serves like a basic infrastructure for public politics, innovation and work. While usually public services are limited to specific countries, they, like the payment processor services, can also be engineered to support multiple jurisdictions simultaneously...

I think logged in users need a reader, that would allow to read external sources, and choose what to import to 0oo. For example, the view like /reader/ideas could let us use 0oo.li like a reader of Halfbakery, with special button, to import the ideas that we like. Similarly, /reader/projects may let us browse and read companies, etc.

This would allow the users of 0oo.li to work like researchers, browsing external questions, ideas, projects, and importing the gems for discussion and work here.

It's almost like our community would have a data-lake of external data sources, and be able to import things worth paying attention to for our community.

I think we should partner with opencollective.org on the ledger (projects ledger) side, and should discuss about desired generality, as we have on 0oo. Also, consider collaboration with odoo.com, as they provide the ability for companies do nearly all business operations by themselves, and companies running Odoo could easily publish parts of their data from ERP to 0oo for public. (We should write an odoo modules for that, for all ERPs.)

The advances in decentralization and clear 0oo database model, makes me think that we could decentralize this system, but it has to be a new effort of its own.

Feature requests:

• a symbol or emoticon to appreciate, like, agree, disagree with a comment without a need to respond to it via text comment

• a symbol to mention a user, like @user or [user] or smth else

// emoticon to appreciate, like, agree, disagree with a comment // @user or [user] or smth else

Haha. Makes sense. Will add these. Definitely, not always one needs to respond, one may just want to add a <3 or ThumbsUp.

One more feature request or clarification:

• when a user declares hours, why balance shows those hours as dollars too? like 7HUR = 70 USD? I'd rather declare only hours or euros of my choice then which would be more accurate.

Last feature request:

• showing the latest comments within a project page on top, not bottom. because each project page becomes a very long page to scroll even with a few comments, which creates a waiting time for a user who wants to read the latest and comment

Feature request:

• Add Markdown basics to s text box, so that user like me learns to write clearly on 0oo (writing bullets was confusing before I asked you how to do it here)

[Ruta], got it :) Will add that into work queue. ^__^ Makes a lot of sense. 7HUR = 70 USD -- yes, almost. The exchange rates are computed hourly, at /rate.

Feature Request:

• Clicking on a username within comments should open a Telegram of that user, so that I can message them privately and ask to clarify a comment.

Now, I click on a username and end up on their profile page, I click on "Start chatting" and end up here https://io.0oo.li/direct/username, so I send a message, but a user is not online, while a user may be online on Telegram, which would spark a clarification of a comment straight away

Feature request:

• Show "Todo", "Question", "Idea" and so on under a Comment box. Now, these options are visible only if I share my comment and later I click EDIT. Many users won't know that these options are available because few click "edit".

Feature request:

• On homepage, show sub-questions under the main question. For a user like me, posting a sub-question helps clarify thinking and now on homepage, each question comes up on a separate line. But for a reader, sub-questions can be not clear or seem duplicate, if they dont see hierarchy straight away (on homepage).

Feature requests:

• Scroll to Top button/icon on mobile

• Selecting existing Project for existing Idea

Feature requests:

• Add "Culture" as a Type for Projects.

• A way for users to "Archive" a Question or Idea by clicking a button "Archive" (so that it becomes a "silent" post but not visible on Home page), in cases of merging, duplication or even when a user realises that a previous post is not relevant anymore. Archived posts could have a label "archived" in headline or something.

• A button asking a thinker to "Clarify" a Question or Idea.

• Make adding existing Ideas to existing Projects easier (now, Ideas are added as number-codes, which sometimes creates an error).

• Enable seeing "Revisions" of what was edited when updating a Question and Ideas, because it shows a thought process of a thinker and is interesting/valuable to see for other users (e.g. WordPress websites have this function for blogging, Medium might have this function for blogging too..)

• A button "Invite a Member" to a Project.

• Have sub-projects under Project, in cases if a project is a community/membership project.

User interactions on the project level are essential. Because when a project grows, users are motivated to keep on creating. It's a feedback loop. But it's weird to ask if each project needs help. So users end up working on their project solo, which is slow effort.

So how about this solution:

• "Challenge" button within a Project page that allows a creator to comment on what are the current challenges/needs for their project?

• This way other users (doers) can simply respond to Challenge and submit Results.

This would spark spontaneous cooperation between all users spread across many different projects and create a synergy moment, where by doing small tasks, together, these users kickstart all projects to the next level.

The same behaviour can repeat on the same level and shape cultural norms, i.e. instead of being stuck people would organise to help each other and solve all global challenges.

A form to declare Results is difficult, this prevents newbie users of sharing results.

Could this be simplified and include only:

• Project

• Happened

• Summary (rename to Result to keep it consistent, i.e. on Project page a button says "Result", so keep it here too)

• Details

• Url

• Hours Spent (merging Costs and Currency, making hour declarations as a default)

• Author

• (hiding all other fields until users learn to Declare Results and Hours)

Allowing a user to add a link to Library would be useful. Why? Because we read articles and they spark ideas and questions.

Similar functionality like Instapaper/Pocket, that allow to add a link to one place to read it later.

So, as [Ruta] has pointed out, projects may benefit from having "Challenges" (like KPIs or targets for projects), and I think, additionally, we could have something of a "Leaderboard" view or sort option for projects at 0oo.li/projects. I agree that this would be great things to add, and yeah, on the to-do list for projects.

in near future, it'd be cool to facilitate funding people directly via 0oo platform for the results they declare realising projects.

this is how it could work:

1.Funder discovers whom to fund

a funder prioritises projects by category (arts, sciences, innovation, etc) and chooses a Project to fund

OR

first, a funder browses through all research questions, ideas, projects and discovers an Individual (or a few) that they like and decide to:

• fund that user directly with a recurring donation

• form a project with that user with a recurring donation attached to it

2.Funder clicks a button to make a recurring monthly donation of chosen amount to that user or a project

3.User keeps on declaring results to the Project and gets a recurring donation to a wallet that allows to cashout (transfer the money to their online bank or paypal)

this feature would suit perfectly for matching artists/independent researchers with philanthropists/patrons who already provide "residencies", "bursaries", "stipends", "donations" in programs part of universities, research centres, art centres

I need a <3 button for comments. Yeah, [Ruta], that's exactly the kind of functionality that I'd love to add. (⇡)

Amazing to see Challenges feature realised! So useful when asking for help from strangers. I just posted my first Challenge in SAME project.

Feature requests:

• Emoticons in comments

• Background colour on homepage section "operations" to match a background colour of "results" within a project page

Feature request from [Ruta]:

• have the "done" option in the tasks mentioned in comments.

Feature request:

• Adding labels (meta-categories) to all types (Questions, Ideas, Projects) would allow users to see diversity of thinkers and quickly realise how to make a useful comment

• Meta-categories could be: Science, Economy, Culture, Education, Art, Philosophy, Technology

For example:

• if a question talks about flying to Mars, this question is labeled as Science

• if a question talks about improving roads, it's labeled as Economy

• if it talks about human traditions and rituals, it's labeled as Culture

• if it talks about making learning more fun, it's labeled as Education

• if it talks about social norms and creative experiments, it's labeled as Art

• if it talks about new ways of thinking and mental models, it's labeled as Philosophy

• if it talks about new technologies, it's labeled as Technology

What other meta-categories would help group everything shared on this website?

RE challenge:

// How to get goal-aligned interest groups of visionaries, regulators, inventors, doers+financiers to come to 0oo.li from diverse world's economic blocs? //

Structuring community development in stages helps and leaves time for relationship development and enjoying the journey. I suggest to start with the most important group first: visionaries and inventors (so that 0oo is filled with topics to discuss and drive projects from). Then moving to doers+financiers. Lastly, to regulators.

How to discover visionaries? I suggest to contact universities in locations that get less funding for R&D. Students have time to think, research and develop. Countries with less resources have more urgency to get involved in a new initiative like 0oo, compared to Western countries and busy cities with too-much-going-on. Simply sending emails to student unions, R&D programmes, open innovation programmes in universities is doable. Starting with 1 student union.

In terms of "goal-aligned groups", I suggest inviting non-profit organisations that research Sustainable Development Goals and/or have "100% of life" and similar in their mission statements, to share their research projects on 0oo so that they get input from the crowd, also invite researchers to use 0oo for cross-pollination of ideas and research questions.

Thanks for great suggestions towards the tackling the challenge, [Ruta]. All great suggestions, though, I have doubts about one:

// Countries with less resources have more urgency to get involved in a new initiative like 0oo, compared to Western countries and busy cities with too-much-going-on

The scientific research being well-funded in the West doesn't imply that there is no desire to discuss science and engineering publicly. On the contrary...

Yes, there are little known universities, that had nevertheless produced exceptional talent. The talent is not so much a function of "university", but rather, of the specific individuals that end up there (likely due to their family and extracurricular education, not because of the university). So, I'd rather not focus on on-boarding universities, but focus on those individuals, as you once said 1:1.

// desire to discuss science and engineering publicly //

I suggest to add inter-disciplinary discussion as a benefit here. There are places on-line for scientists to talk.

But where is an open place on the Internet (or in the world) to discuss sciences, arts, design, engineering and business, all together?

It does not exist. So who would disagree that such a diverse mix of thinking would produce unexpected ideas and projects? Great offer for those who like to think and create.

// I suggest to add inter-disciplinary discussion as a benefit here //

Of course, that is one of those magical things about the place and generality of its structure -- it is to cultivate the truly interdisciplinary thought. :) It could be a truly unique benefit: I think the core of 0oo must the "weirdo creative futurist dreamers", and others be more of a supportive periphery, i.e., regulators/investors/financiers -- be the ones who say "ouch" or "go ahead" -- with their regulatory or financial actions, meanwhile leaving the creative spirit to be what it is.

:) I thought, regarding events, we have a place for events :) https://0oo.li/events . I'm thinking, we could use it. The Lifeboat Foundation uses its "what's new" "( https://lifeboat.com/ex/whats.new ), where they share various news they find and relevant to their audience. We could do too. Then link those events with Questions / Ideas / Projects, the readers of which may find it interesting to participate in them. E.g., if we have a topic on Finance, finance discussion events may be auto-linked, if it is something about art, then art exploration meetings could be connected, etc.

Great, love it! So how do Weirdo Creative Futurist Dreamers come and join those events?

// How do Weirdo Creative Futurist Dreamers come and join those events?

Well, events obviously need calendar links, that we could display alongside them. :)

Great to see likes on comments feature realised! I wonder, does it make sense to transform "-" into "?". This way "+" means agreement and "?" means a request to clarify a comment. This way it's more constructive and encourages commentators to continue discussion rather than disagreeing which ends the discussion.

I added a challenge: How can homepage encourage new users to see what the platform is for? (Feedback from 6 people about them feeling overloaded). How can Dream=World(Actions) aka Y=F(X) be more obvious for newbies?

Suggestion: On homepage, add "Dream=World(Actions)" instead of "FEEDS Items created in last 7 days are in bold." to communicate the purpose of the platform. See this photo of what I mean

// "Dream=World(Actions)" at the top.. //

Yeah, and good visually! Totally makes sense. It's a to-do. ;)

Regarding comment likes/dislikes, do we want to be able to see, who liked/disliked? :) I think yes, because people care to know who read them, without explicit replies.

Or, better, make read-receipts, so that anyone can optionally just add a "tick", to indicate they had read, leaving the likes to be for evaluation rather than read-receipt indication.

Idea for feature request:

• Invite friends for 1 hour real-time Infinity Challenge during which everyone posts interesting Questions/Ideas and comments to each other's posts on 0oo.li.

Having a time limit focuses everyone to think creatively and creates a bond between strangers fast.

I used to moderate live twitter chats for hundreds of strangers. Worked great!

Right, that makes sense, it's usually done through certain timed online activities, that would be easy by combining Zoom + Google calendar. However, I'd think it might be not fun if the number of people is too small. E.g., if just 3 people show up :) It would be more fun if there were say 8 people or so to start with, so, I'd think, well, plan it for the future. Good direction though.

In addition, I imagine there are different kinds of meetings: - (for goals & ideas) sorting and voting on them, helping discover new links (related works), and free talking - (for projects) there are people who might want to catch up periodically about their project progress, almost like startups, and consult each others.

One of the shortcomings of the Airtable-based calendars is that they do not show the details of the event, only name, when added to calendars, so I don't know how many people actually subscribed to them.

Love that. Having online meetups for:

• Linking Goals and Ideas
• Projects Progress

would be useful and help people find collaborators and get into feedback loop to move projects forward.

Instead of a Calendar, it would be cool to have a button somewhere that people click to announce about willingness to connect on Zoom.

Maybe it can start as a generic Question "Online Meetups for 0oo" where 0oo users comment when they want to come together on a call.

Just let users set their project's url name, so that projects, ideas, etc. could register their handles, e.g. the 0oo.li/project/1011 could map to 0oo.li/project/mutantu if mutantu handle is registered.

Some comments, those that are responses to challenges, may appear in different color, and be showable under those challenges, cause that part works a bit like quora? I think, we should also make an option then for the resolved issues to disappear from the home page.

A feature to mark solved or archived Challenges would be useful. I don't like deleting because it's valuable to see that there was a Challenge and now it's solved or not relevant anymore.

I've got to mention, that the way 0oo works as a HomeBase, is a bit inspired by my favorite game, called "X-COM: UFO Enemy Unknown", where humans have to manage bases to defend Earth from Alien Invasion with management of resources. So, that's why each project has "Locations" (click image next to "+[Transfer]"), and my old idea of "Goal tracking and resource management" database. :) Anyway, there were really many things in fact, that inspired it. That fun could actually start in real, if we realize this idea that could be like an economic X-COM for good.