This exists as scaling fees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliding_scale_fees

You card is linked to your identity and your identity is linked to your tax account.

Prices can be scaled to a maximum cost.

Would be good, but people do have multiple debit cards, and may have secret pockets. What is the force to make all information about your finances summed up?

This idea is more that your debit card decides how much you pay when you go to buy your coffee.

Usually, businesses want to charge the clients as much as possible, so, the knowledge of the buyer's purchasing power, is what every business is actively seeks to know.

Also, every business tries to maximize sales, even at a lower price. So, something like this already happens naturally, when companies choose to export the surplus of their production to countries with lower income levels.

There is something more to consider. Today, we have companies deep-learning specific models to answer specific questions. For example, identity and face recognition models, weather models, etc., and these specific models are being used as a resource by integrative decision systems to make decisions.

So, just like we had layers of abstraction while building network protocols one upon another (e.g., layers in OSI model), we could actually have standards for deep-learned models, build social AI from ground up, combining multiple standardized AI models.

Having versioned and standardized machine-learned models would allow us to work on specifying the qualities and blind-spots of these models, and take actions to confidently version, incrementally improve, and use them in derived applications.

For example, imagine that definition of a concept "Manga" is defined not by a dictionary, but by an ANN, like Manga GAN, and becomes something like an ISO standard model of what "Manga" looks like. Many AI systems are already versioned, like, for example Google Translate, and the properties of them are known. So, think of many concepts and complex phenomena that we build AI models of, and standardize.

Perhaps this comment merits a separate post, of an idea of ISO standardization for AI models.

Right. I'm waiting for the numbers. Perhaps public services sector statistics could tell, cause I'm not so sure, how many people would fall into these categories today, say, in the UK I presume.

Do you mean deus ex machina rather than occam's razor?

When I get around to it, I'll add up the number of supermarket workers, nurses, doctors and other vocations that I consider to be essential for society that are underpaid. And divide that billion by that number of people. And delivery drivers. It would be every year.

It's a reward for being essential to society.

// Government sets aside a billion pounds from general taxation to pay for these essential workers, to invest in the common folk and boost their income. //

So as simple as that -- Occam's razor, just set aside. Alright, but would one billion be enough, and for what period of time? What's the math of it?

I.e., how sustainable is it. Also, while calling it "Social credit system" -- we'd expect some more explanation, of the current level of incomes and the expected high level of incomes, with such system in place.

// How do we increase salaries while preserving low labour costs?

Asking for a solution to mutually dependent variables with inverse relationship. A tall order. But, we do want it, so, I'm very curious what ideas can address that.

Those who have cars and good mobile internet access may have not noticed the problem, but for those, who are on a bike or on feet, finding a silent and private place to work is a problem: most cafes are not silent, and not private, not really suitable for work. Rentable offices are not abundant and ubiquitous. So, I see the problem.

However, to make such "work stops" ubiquitous, you'd need to seed a large number of them, across country, and you risk that still, people will bump into times, when locating one is an issue. How many such stops would we need? So, not sure if this would be a real solution.

Would any of the concept cars (like this Mercedes), with "summon on demand" function, -- be able to replace such work stops? Or, what about noise-cancellation devices, like noise-cancelling earphones and noise-cancelling speaker (like hushme), and a privacy screen (like this one, using polarized glasses), allowing to convert any cafe with a good table into a silent one, suitable for work?

As for the extension of libraries, I'd like to share experience -- in Japan, it is normal to study a lot, and university libraries don't close at night, so you can enter a library at any time. In addition, in Japan, the Manga Cafes (see link below your post) are common, and provide pretty much what you're describing. So, it's invented, just not popular in the West. Duh, it makes me want to go back to Japan...

// how would these centers be run? //

on a non-profit model where a local team is responsible to look after the building, monitor a public calendar, invite locals with specific interest to specific workshops.

it would require: a google calendar, a public trello board, 3 volunteers per space.

to scale such tiny cultural spaces across locations, a google doc will explain how to use a google calendar (for events), trello (for events plan) and how to communicate nicely with local gov/businesses to access abandoned buildings where a cultural centre is run from.

// if local manufacturers could come, and present their resources, and allow people innovate regarding new products //

YES, that would be amazing! boosting local economies that starts with an informal workshop.

// How they are different from hackerspaces? //

hackerspaces are for "hackers" - it's in the name. but creative expression is so much more than one discipline.

add a variety of arts, design, business, tech, science, and you have a more inclusive space where every participant can boost their creativity faster and discover the worlds they did not think existed, because local business owners never went to hackerspaces, and artists never went to labs.

// pooling resources is more about resources -- machines, materials, people -- that are available in locations //

yes, and often people don't meet locally, they drive/fly to other locations to "network"

// How would these recommendations be generated? //

everything I post on this social network, I tag with a label (like a I choose a category for each blog on my site).

e.g. if I post about "an idea of a digital diary", I tag it with "note taking". if I post about "an idea of a garden office", I tag it with "work from home" and "architecture". and so on.

this way, people who are interested in same topics discover me.

side thought: people will need to be introduced to a good practice of labelling their posts when starting to use the app, so that they get good recommendations and attract the right followers.

// a social net, for prototyping? //

yes, making social networking more meaningful. people follow others on Twitter, Instagram, etc for a purpose of "consuming information" and often not doing anything about it.

but true learning comes when doing something with that information. and true connection is made when collaborating with a follower on a project. so, this would be a place to get to know people closer by prototyping things.

also, typically, people get into a project stage after months/years of meeting online, but tech could speed up "a process of let's get to know each other by creating together".

Categories are supposed to work this way -- i.e., if you have some "Quora-like question" -- it's a category.

You may ask, how is category -- a question? Categories are questions to retrieve all items in category. For example, category: "Nanotechnology" in form of question would be "What items do we have about Nanotechnology?"

I think, we should review the old video about infty.xyz, and pick some ideas from there.

0oo UI should encourage people to "move from thought to action". for me, personally, it would be cool to have a section "Chaos" before "Categories" which would allow a Feedback Seeker to post random questions/ideas (like on Quora but more for research questions), and 0oo community would reply with comments. as a result, a Feedback Seeker would synthesise thoughts and later rephrase a crappy question into the one that fits categories. because synthesis happens when people are thinking together.

Today's Hive Mind reminded me this idea.

// People use this app to get inspired from diverse pool of strangers, publish inspirations (photos of personal notes and clips of other website's text/images) [...] in public boards [...]

Sounds like network of personal boards. So, profiles. It's what social nets had since early days, but they didn't focus on prototyping. So, would this be, in principle, a social net, for prototyping?

// [...] I get content recommendations. [...]

How would these recommendations be generated? Being that recommendations are essential part of the success of social web service providers, even Google, YouTube, etc., the quality of recommendations is the reason why something succeeds or not. For example, Peter Diamandis had recently launched FutureLoop, which does essentially nothing but recommend news. The recommendation engine may be essential, but without specifying how it would do those recommendations, it may be hard to judge how would this network evolve / succeed.

Examples of solutions to this problem could be found in nature, i.e., how a beehive responds to an intruder wasp, vs., how mosquitoes do not seem to respond collectively, each acting as an independent actor. An ant-hill may be something between a mosquito and a beehive, in that every ant acts with its own freedom, in fulfilling some social role, that it takes as part of differentiation, similar to sexual differentiation, and respond to intruders a bit like the immune system responds to pathogens -- signaling to certain type of agents (warrior ants, or T-cells, and we find people in our current societies that roles -- doctors, policemen, etc.) to engage with certain type of threats.

What's interesting, is that all these systems rely on certain type of recognizers, and signaling. An ant recognizes signals like pheromones, while in our society, we may be recognizing different kind of signals. I'd think part of the solution lies in developing an alphabet for social signals, and innovating around social roles. For example, we may need a signal (or a symbol) and a recognizer of emergent exponential growths.

The particular ideas of such symbol sets and signaling patterns may be interesting, and be suggested as ideas.

This TED talk touches on this the brain-changing benefits of exercise.

// first, drugs that can make people "healthy"

Yes, it requires much more than just "drugs" -- modeling a part of metabolism, and measuring the rates of information and material flows via various metabolic pathways.

// second, how to suppress the side effects of this drug.

Right. I have no answer to "how" here. We can discuss here if it is generally desired, and, if we have ideas or answers, we have the "+[idea]" button. :)

So, cause there is firestormviewer.org, allowing to use SecondLife on Linux, -- just contract with a university, to sell them service of making underground Borg cubes in SecondLife, and hire existing makers, as well as build library for Blender to automate Borg cube making for SecodnLife? (see link)

[genidma]，Hi~

// Couple of angles to this conversation.

I wondering those angles ;)

[genidma], welcome to 0 -> oo! Hope you'll like our community. You may want to subscribe to our discord, or telegram to keep up with new questions, ideas and projects.

// Happy to discuss with folks from the military, government and other agencies like FBI.

This is a public machine-readable forum, so you never know, when someone from government may want to chime-in. I'd suggest editing your profile to add some contact information, if you want someone to contact you, cause, otherwhise, the forum requires no personal information to register :)

Hey Mindey,

Adeel here.

Couple of angles to this conversation.

Happy to discuss with folks from the military, government and other agencies like FBI.

Thanks.

This upcoming discussion on inter-species communication may be relevant: http://longnow.org/seminars/02020/apr/29/interspecies-communication-and-search-extraterrestrial-intelligence/

Perhaps one could re-purpose low-latency chat systems, like Telegram, with channels with notifications turned off, for that...

They may have psychological and even genetic components. For example, hunting vs farming, may have selected people for completely different set of abilities, where in one case, the results are not very much correlated with efforts (more related with subconscious "cooking" of various ideas so to speak), whereas in other case they are closely related with the amount of work done.

So, I'd say, it has a lot to do with those natural propensities, but also, on how society rewards them economically.

Paraphrasing, the 3 main points from Ben Landau were identified in all the cases of societies, in which you're getting lots of breakthrough technology:

1. Wealth accumulation close to economic production. Accumulation of wealth in the hands of people who are very closely involved in the economic production, and the source of their power in society is the raw economic production itself. Here, "accumulation" is not "income" (if your expenses = income, you're not accumulating anything). This statement is not about particular individuals, but at the society in general ("if you zoom out, and look where the piles of wealth are deployed"). You can find societies that, for example, have priests or religious figures accumulating wealth (early Mesopotamian, or early Medieval Europe). You can find societies, where political leaders accumulate wealth (like in Roman Empire). You can also find societies where people themselves come to be deeply involved in the economic production (craftsmen, farmers, industrialists) the ones who are building up and accumulating the surplus, and deciding how to deploy it. When you're doing this, it does not only allow to have income, but also have piles of wealth, that you can use to reshape society in important ways.

Also, one interesting thing about the accumulation, is that it tends to be associated less with just the size of the industry, and a lot more with whether it's growing and new, where things are expanding and becoming relatively more important, is where you tend to see accumulation of politically relevant fortunes.

Those people who are closely involved in the economic production, when empowered, they where the interventions can make a difference, and that contributes to the creation of breakthrough technologies. Whereas, when the accumulation is happening among generals and governors (like in Roman Empire), these people are making their money from large farms worked by slaves, and they are not really involved and don't know how agriculture works. They are not going to innovate in agriculture, as it's not what they do - they know that the way you get richer is by conquering other nations. Of course, they can be innovative in the military sense then...

2. Disruption-tolerance. You need a culture that is relatively tolerant of new power bases, and people coming up with new ways of doing things on a large scale. It can often be really locally-damaging to the things that are getting displaced. Joseph Schumpeter calls this "the process of creative destruction" -- "you have a new industry coming that works so much better than previous one, such that the old one gets destroyed" (e.g., supermarket displacing the baker and green grocer, and butcher). Nowadays we call this "disruption." This is most obvious in cases of communication technology, where establishment media sources are displaced by newer internet-based media sources. The disruption-tolerance may be low. For example, you can think of Uber as one of the disruptive technologies, but in France, taxi drivers rioted and destroyed the cars of Uber drivers. You don't have that happen in the U.S., as we have more legal tolerance towards people doing new things. It may be even in the law, like, e.g., in the U.S. there is precedent-based reactive practice, -- "You do whatever, and we will later decide if it is good." -- vs. like in Europe "Things have to be defined in law before they are legal."

3. Logic-based culture. A very logical school of thought that's quite prominent in the culture. In order to do very good physical engineering, there have to be enough people who are comfortable with this sort of very logical thought, -- very analytical, so that they can do not just the empirical side, but also the thinking through, doing hypothesis generation to explore consequences. In the modern world, this is something that may be called "scientific materialism", "rationalism" -- which seem to work very well for this. In other cultures that have physical technology you'll see some equivalent of this, e.g., scholasticism, or legalism, or some sort of very logical culture that gives a wide social space for "nerds to get into the weeds." This is more of an empirical claim, but it seems to fit that this is a thing you would need to do the type of large scale engineering, which may be necessary for both incremental and breakthrough technology.

Could this be like mass producer guilds?, presenting capabilities they have, to encourage innovation. Cause, pooling resources is not about money, but more about resources -- machines, materials, people -- that are available in locations.

Sounds like re-invograting local creativities~ So, how would these centers be run? How they are different from hackerspaces?

For me, it would be fun, if local manufacturers could come, and present their resources, and allow people innovate regarding new products, that those resources could be put to use to produce.

Usually, hackerspaces are made, and left function like playgrounds, but what we need for those ideas to scale, is the touch with actual mass-production capabilities presented by industry, showing up, and saying -- we're here, and help us imagine what else we could make.

Perhaps those societies that facilitate interactions between diverse people (multi-cultural places like cities) and encourage idea copying (China).

Thinking, for the ideas, it would make sense to connect with Ethereum via Metamask, to optionally sign innovations as ERC721 tokens...

Hi [Kocmoca], and welcome to Homebase! :)

// First, for example, I don't want to be notified every time I get a message, I would like it to use "auto-reply".

Fair enough. We want to maximize our free time. And yet, as you mention, also maximize uniqueness, -- so that others do get the value. Agreed. Which means, the model should get pretty darn good at figuring out what parts of existing knowledge base it should send as a response. All valid points.

That's a great idea!

I am wondering about couple of things...

First, for example, I don't want to be notified every time I get a message, I would like it to use "auto-reply".

Second, if it's going to be "auto-reply" then this can reduce the communication bond and trust. It's important to preserve uniqness and connection to the user.

Well that's new. Then we can make humanoid robots in science fiction works real.

// Does it mean non-connected artificial intelligence?

Indeed so! It would work without sending data to the Internet. However, it would download the pre-trained models, and I think the actual user should be able to share parts of the newly learned model of their selves if they wanted to. However, no out-going communication would be happening on behalf of the program.

Well, main feature would be that it would not be connected to the cloud, so, it's just your very -puter, and you could delete the collected data/model, and start from scratch, or modify the model.

// Go with your shadow ...

Comparison to a shadow may be good indeed though, -- what was the movie Omniscient, wasn't it? Though, the problem was the central computer. The reflectoputers wouldn't have that.

Focusing on equipment and materials... would answer most questions about know-how...

Yeah, we need open and transparent direct trade and product exchange.

Thinking -- when importing data about production, to connect actual manufacturers directly with the market, not via distributors, but via Homebase :)

Thinking -- whenever dealing with currencies on 0oo, it's think of doing so like making friends with the people who issue those currencies. Economies are relationships...

Thinking of the further features:

• For general user: great value is in the ability to immediately contact many bright minds for feedback to your well-crafted message. We already have some people on Telegram, that we can simply invite to a Zoom meeting, and share about the overall notifications business (namely, that once someone will publish, they will get notified on Telegram, and are invited to provide feedback to the posted item.). So, while we had invited people already to the Telegram channels, they are currently not informed about this mechanics, and what they have to do once they get notification about a new topic on 0oo. We should therefore organize Zoom meetings to start this process.

• For researchers, is the full database (e.g., SQLite) download (or just equivalently API serializers with downloader).

• For trading and running business, it's the support for the payments. Thinking of payments, while Stripe is nice, we have to support freedom of using any methods -- from cryptographic currencies to traditionals like banks, PayPal, etc.
• For general user, perhaps it would be nice to have "one inbox" -- i.e., merging "Categories", "Ideas" and "Projects" into one uniform list of items, that are just labeled, and filterable, without resorting to Elasticsearch.
• IRC Server, to create new channels for new posts.

Wow! A nice new logo, and it's interesting to see a change :) You've renamed the project, from AKie to ziu :) Actually, "AKie" sounded very Japanese, like Kokono. Wondering, how did you weight between brands?

Btw., you can have a different names in the title for different languages, just by using the inline syntax described in help.

//while importing datasets How do I import a dataset?

Currently, while importing datasets, started using it, auto-generating categories for sources, like so:

Y:IDEA:TRP:NTRS, to refer to NASA Technical Reports Server.

This perhaps should be turned into a category, as it only provides a concept, rather than method.

// and animals freely migrate crossing the city

Question is - what animals? Aligators, lions, snakes and tigers? Or squirrels, kangaroos and cows?

While animals can be tame, it looks like some of those animals have attractions towards hunting, like most humans have attractions towards thinking. To allow certain types of animals to roam freely in our cities, it would require rather elaborate brain modifications, and feeding equipment, to make their behaviors not dangerous, and make them generally tame.

At this point, I think in the exchange section, it would be strategically advantageous to focus on trade of tools and equipment that empowers people to make and scale in markets, because these things are what creates value in societies.

For example, trading of power tools, industrial equipment, like mining equipment, farming tools, medical tools and equipment, laboratory equipment, mass production equipment, chip manufacturing equipment, etc., -- these are the transformers and enablers, that make modern life possible. They are what will eventually help understand the know-how graph.

Trade focus: - industrial equipment and materials, - medical equipment and materials, - lab equipment and materials.