### Conversations

I think, the idea of Shapeflow may have great explanatory power and potential for impact, especially, if we devise a game -- let's call it "Body" -- where this structure that you (as ingested substance (say, game player)) is travelling through, is a human body that is getting sick or clogged over time, and your target, as a substance, is to go successfully through that network of metabolic pathways. Kids (or maybe AlphaZeros) playing such games might devise many strategies that we do not know of... and, no cheating, dear AI -- with going through all the necessary parts, where you get extra points -- so, that you wouldn't suddenly convert the gamified human body into a topological doughnut.

--Mindey

I'm exploring Living Systems philosophy lately. So inspired by what makes all life connected like "Air" (we all breathe), "Water" (we are all made of water), "Energy", ... Mixing in breathing sounds would be cool!

Cymatics (how music/vibrations shape water) is fascinating too!

--Ruta

[justinmiyamoto], nice! Lets explore together.

--Ruta

So, for Investors, the value of 0oo is discovery of interesting projects and transparent accounting on how the project budget is spent.

And for Doers, the value of 0oo is finding new ideas, getting community feedback directly, finding cocreators, solving project challenges, selling products on the Market.

--Ruta

Yes, correct.

Right, "Funds" are for accounting only, it's like an investor or purchaser score — to keep track of funds provided.

// Does that Funds number ever go down?

Yes, it goes down, as the transfers are linked with results that have costs.

Here is a little video on that: link. In case of external investors, they are going to be investing, say, dollars, euros, or something else, like machines, or supplies. That all counts as "Funds". Once they put their assets into any of the projects, that appears to them as "Funds provided" in the funds page.

--Mindey

So it is 3 things?

1. Funds appear under Funds when investor makes a money transaction to a project and declare that they made a transfer by clicking Transfer button within a project (actual Transaction does not happen in 0oo)

2. Project members then declare Results with HURS, to "use the Funds" (even if they got actual money already).

3. Then FUNDS for that investor go down to show that projects are "using those funds".

So, FUNDS work like public accounting on how projects are spending money, right?

--Ruta

// If someone tranfers 100$to me (by clicking Transfer button in one of my projects), does it mean they get my HUR credits? Yes, their "FUNDS" amount increases by that much (10 blue "funds" by current exchange rate). For the user who transfers you funds, it indicates that they had given that much, and those funds are still available to the users whom they had given them. However, if you, the recipient of funds, would suddenly write a result (+[result]), with say, 50$ costs, and then chose that this result's costs are compensated by the mentioned transfer of funds, then, they would lose their FUNDS value, because that would indicate the consumption of those funds for your result. However, if you don't do that, they might think that they still have their funds with you.

--Mindey

If someone tranfers 100$to me (by clicking Transfer button in one of my projects), does it mean they get my HUR credits? So 15 credits appear on their profile? [reply] --Ruta Interested in this topic! [reply] Once I sit down to write down 100 questions that interest me most and I wrote until I had 100 questions. Then, I grouped them into themes and picked the top ten. They guided me in my longterm explorations of topics! I also did the same exercise for/with a friend changing jobs. Curiosity moment! [reply] --Ruta I think we can generate questions with word lists and some simple code to randomise the choices. [reply] I worked on two systems to help decision making. one is called fact collector and the other is correlation engine [reply] I have a system called additive guis for generating GUIs where GUIs are composed of statements and form a query. The runtime then generates a GUI based on the query. [reply] Cloud computing allows resources to be shared. But I bet there's a simple technique to sharing programs and data that allows the maximum use of technology. [reply] I would like a subscript number be used on every sentence to make each sentence referenceable. Perhaps clicking on it creates a quote in the comment box. [reply] // I need to be able to reference a sentence in discussion // Definitely! Will plan on adding this, cause this would be quite useful in discussions. [reply] --Mindey I need to be able to reference a sentence in discussion rather than reply to the whole at once. Perhaps this could be a feature of homebase? A subscript number after every sentence that can be used to refer to the source text. [reply] We need a marketplace of ideas. That's infinity homebase. [reply] @ MUTANTU Essential question for this project: If creators create (already), why they still don't feel coexistence (peace within)? What principles of Living Systems (spells) would help welcome a deep sense of coexistence into creators lives? [reply] --Ruta Got great feedback from a mentor on writing (creating blocks of time with no interruptions and inspiring objects), running Kickstarter with a spreadsheet and limiting the amounts of backers for sanity, potential illustrators from Africa and Asia, advice to explore Living Systems science and philosophy videos and chats, so that I could easier spot patterns that would become the spells in the book. [reply] --Ruta One idea I have is that as a person I have an API and I will do work for you if you call me via this API. I need people that are good with HTML and CSS. What can I give? I can create prototype systems. Probably not as pretty as 0oo.li though ;-) [reply] I'm a lazy software engineer. You can find what I'm capable of on my github profile: https://github.com/samsquire Click repositories, change the type to sources and that's all my things I've made. And my blog is here https://elaeis.cloud-angle.com/ [reply] // What can I do and then what can you do for others? // yes [chronological], I love that! similarly, at SAME community project, we ask members "What can you give?" and "What do you need?". [reply] --Ruta Talked to a friend about senses. "How come my phone has more sensors than I have?" and "How does a bird see the worm? They see the light, urine." Hmm, I haven't thought about that before, how different animals sense. How can humans reveal this world of non-human senses? Is embodiment of non-human senses even possible for humans? [reply] --Ruta [Ruta], yes, true, in fact, the purchase for transfer affects ledger and your credit balance. :) While this may look complex, whenever we do a purchase, we can choose how to pay, and can match up another transfer as payment. That other transfer must exist under some project (for example, the project of the company that makes the product) to be able to select it. So, buying something this way, at current stage, is not yet optimized for user experience. While not a priority at this stage (we have other features that are much more used currently, like projects and ideas), but it will become important in later stages. // A problem with microtransactions is fees. // Oh yes. Had you heard of Mercatoria by the inventor of Bitcoin? He's currently working on making that cheap, through, what I understand, a structure, -"Inductive Consensus Tree Protocol (ICTP) - for distributed consensus and computation at scale. It achieves high throughput, ∼$0.0002 transaction costs, and high security while preserving privacy."

It introduces something called "inductive consensus tree" ... "The design decentralizes verification, staking, and storage, and supports tens of millions of transactions per second, with capacity increasing as global bandwidth grows." -- worth looking into it.

--Mindey

I like this idea, though there are other ways -- we could ask shipbuilders to build us a seascraper, and regarding lands, we should try to eventually onboard land providers with their land offers on 0oo.li/products, and then use the market feature to buy it from them for results coownership.

--Mindey

You could do transactions of £100 at a time. And eat the 3% fee on deposit or withdrawal.

A problem with microtransactions is fees.

It costs a lot of money to handle a transaction if you're doing business transactions of money.

I just used my credits to buy one of the products. That means, in my balance, I should see that some credits I already spend?

--Ruta

@ 0oo

[justinmiyamoto], your result appears to be either not public, or incorrect. What I'm seeing is this. I suppose, your result is about a UI design or improvements? Try making google drive link publicly visible.

--Mindey

Furthermore, a button "Cashout" next to "P&L" on user profile would complete the journey of "working on ideas in society" by enabling to transfer money from 0oo virtual wallet to an online bank of that user.

Virtual Wallet is something I'd like to explore too at least as a thought process imagining how would it look like on a user experience side (e.g. I click a button and x happens). We could then sketch it on Google Slides, test it with real people (I'm up for it!!) and then make a plan if it's feasable to develop technically in future.

I feel it's useful to enable people to collect money thru 0oo from investors and then transfer that money to their banks, so that they can spend it in a real world today.

--Ruta

How about polishing User Profiles to showcase a "wholeness" of a person and where they are making impact in the world?

I mean, a profile should give a summary of where in the self-actualisation journey an individual is:

• P&L Balance

Showing how much hours they declared and how much they got as an investment. Balance should always be aimed for "0" as equality between input and output. If it shows "-", it is a good indicator that someone from 0oo community simply needs to fund this person, to bring them to balance. On society level, when 0.5 bn people use 0oo, this feature would lift a human race from struggle to abundance and enable working on ideas!

A user profile also should give a summary of what an individual deeply cares about and how they contribute to the collective whole:

• Meta Categories

• Projects, Latest Results

• Ideas

• Questions

I suggest this order because it goes from zoom-out view ("Meta Categories") to zoom-in view (practical stuff like "Projects") and then into a zoom-out view again (a background story like "Ideas and Questions"). This order was brainstormed with [justinmiyamoto].

Overall, profiles would give people hope and confidence in their ability to contribute to the world's course (Projects), showcase links with a global community (Ideas, Questions) and enable people to live on ideas (personal P&L).

I'm really motivated by this Feature and would love to explore together how we could visualise this! Welcome your thoughts :)

--Ruta

Reading an interview with ecologist and writer D.Abram, I loved how he describes everything being alive (sensuous earth) and he talks about words as magic.

Then, a friend mentioned Japanese word "Kotodama" that means "soul of language" and "sacred sound".

I'm curious how I can infuse the magic into words with MUTANTU book..

--Ruta

[justinmiyamoto], well, we have got to have file uploads, ideally we'd provide extra cryptographic proofs of authenticity that way (whatever not provided by links), and it's not as hard, definitely, one of the things to do next. Though, to conform with the style of 0oo, we'd likely only have file previews on mouse hover, as we're focused on helping textual ideas, and want to avoid the distractions as much as possible ;)

--Mindey

For mainstream appeal, I feel like the ability to upload and share images in the posts and comments is a must. But I understand if that's a hard task and if that's not the direction of 0oo.

@ 0oo

I've got to mention, that the way 0oo works as a HomeBase, is a bit inspired by my favorite game, called "X-COM: UFO Enemy Unknown", where humans have to manage bases to defend Earth from Alien Invasion with management of resources. So, that's why each project has "Locations" (click image next to "+[Transfer]"), and my old idea of "Goal tracking and resource management" database. :) Anyway, there were really many things in fact, that inspired it. That fun could actually start in real, if we realize this idea that could be like an economic X-COM for good.

--Mindey

Welcome [justinmiyamoto]!

Oh, I have questions too to add to this thread. I see HURS as "everyone declares time they spend on projects, no matter if it was a writer or an engineer, and this way all work is equal". [Mindey], what do you think about that?

But then, what is the value of declaring hours for a creator like me? Can someone come on 0oo and invest into my project directly, so that I don't go to Kickstarter? This is relevant for me now for my book project.

Also, what's the key motivator for investors? Why would they come to 0oo to invest? And is it really an investment or more like a donation?

And what happens during the transaction now? Does money go to my bank somehow?

And what happens with P&L when transaction is made?

Well, asking a question is the first step to clarity :) Thank you for listening to my questions!

--Ruta

Great to hear that, [justinmiyamoto], and I hope you find this place fun to be. We are actually seriously thinking about these problems of economy and money. The precise definition actually is at the bottom of the rates page, and you can the historical fluctuation of all currencies as measured in HUR by downloading our database. ;) Feel free to ask questions if something comes up on mind as you continue to explore~ ^__^

--Mindey

Wow, thank you for commenting so thoroughly Mindey. Makes sense! I'm very excited about the potential of 0oo. I've been thinking about these problems for a long time and I'm so glad someone is working on it. Excited to try some of my projects on here.

Hey [justinmiyamoto], first of all, welcome to the 0oo :)

// For example, if I work for someone for 1 hour, I should be paid 1HUR by the person I worked for.

Was your work okay to be published or mentioned for the world to see? If that is so, this place is for you. Then, you use HUR here only as a unit of measure. For example, if your production or service COST was 50$, you would use the button "+[result]" under a project in question, and write 50$ / HUR = 4.95 HUR under the work result that you declared (or just write 50 USD, and our system will evaluate the HUR equivalent). Note that HUR is not something that is distributed or traded -- it is a unit of value that we show for information purposes, not a currency.

Further, if someone paid you for your costs, and they are okay to publish information about the fact of payment, they can register that fact under project with "+[transfer]" button, and register it. Payment can have the work results matched up, so that they cancel out (for example, if the payment was of 60$, the total ledger value would be 10$ in the end), this way, producing a ledger for the public to see.

What comes out of this activity of creating ledgers of works and transactions under project, is informational, and displayed as community credit and funds above your username. Once we have more projects in the community producing real products, we are considering that this community credit will be useful as a form of currency to make (at least partial) payments for things you can buy on our market section.

// Also, what if I do work that doesn't benefit someone who works like a baby?

You can declare hours by registering expenses for whatever you did, in public here, and that will add in to your "credit score" on this community.

I hope this explanation is understandable. Does it make sense to you? You can always take a look at fluctuating value of HUR at 0oo.li/rate.

--Mindey

Playing with LearnDash online course functionality, I realised an issue about adding video lectures. I can either upload videos to Youtube (unlisted setting) for free and then embed it into my course. Or, I can pay Vimeo PRO $7/mo to upload private videos and embed them to my course. LearnDash integrates nicely with WordPress, so courses are accessed from within my website. Or, I can use Teachable for$29/mo that hosts my videos and has cool functionality for course building and selling. But it takes 5% transaction fee. Also, I'm exploring Thinkific, which is \$39/mo for videos hosting for unlimited courses and has option for one free course. No transaction fees here.

Hmm. I'm tempted to stick with LearnDash for now or create one free course on Thinkific to see how it compares to LearnDash.

--Ruta

@ 0oo

A feature to mark solved or archived Challenges would be useful. I don't like deleting because it's valuable to see that there was a Challenge and now it's solved or not relevant anymore.

--Ruta

@ 0oo

Some comments, those that are responses to challenges, may appear in different color, and be showable under those challenges, cause that part works a bit like quora? I think, we should also make an option then for the resolved issues to disappear from the home page.

--Mindey

Umm, there is a package now, that can be tested with:

Try pip install metaform, and then

import metaform

'*': 'https://github.com/mindey/terms/wiki/person#foaf',
'url': 'http://dbpedia.org/resource/John_Lennon',
'fullname': 'John Lennon',
'birthdate': '1940-10-09',
'spouse': 'http://dbpedia.org/resource/Cynthia_Lennon'
}).format()


--Mindey

Ask yourself What can I do and then what can you do for others?

@ 0oo

Just let users set their project's url name, so that projects, ideas, etc. could register their handles, e.g. the 0oo.li/project/1011 could map to 0oo.li/project/mutantu if mutantu handle is registered.

--Mindey

@ 0oo

Love that. Having online meetups for:

• Projects Progress

would be useful and help people find collaborators and get into feedback loop to move projects forward.

Instead of a Calendar, it would be cool to have a button somewhere that people click to announce about willingness to connect on Zoom.

Maybe it can start as a generic Question "Online Meetups for 0oo" where 0oo users comment when they want to come together on a call.

--Ruta

// How to showcase a hexagon shape on my website? CSS is a challenge for me. //

You might want to take a look into Processing.org and ThreeJS.org -- those are the tools that have the potential to create impressions. Though, it all depends on what you are trying to achieve. CSS is also quite powerful, but wherever people are in need of impressive imagery, I'd recommend also thinking about other forms of media, like loading a repeating video over entire page as background, dynamic SVG, or something else.

--Mindey

After presenting my progress to a friend, I was thinking about her questions on "Can you explain more what is a Superhero mentioned on your site?"

So the idea of the book is to serve as a "min effort in the personal transformation journey and evolving to feel co-existence". Then, I reviewed my spells captured on Airtable and realised that many are Body spells like walking, listening, dancing, gardening, etc.

So, I'd like to add some spells for the Mind not just the Body. What mental models align with living systems philosophy, i.e. help to navigate chaotic world of creativity?

Zoom out, Zoom in (like on Workflowy)

Solo, Together (like a wing that becomes a butterfly at times)

Like a heartbeat